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LEFT for project-management-for-beginners.com
 

Project Management Expert:

Josh Nankivel

 

Thanks to people like Josh Nankivel, future generations of project managers are being groomed as we speak.  And unlike in the past, the focus really is on them.

That's because Josh targets people like you: the beginner.  And that's why we sought him out, because if we're going to design this website for young project managers, then it would be incomplete without some words from the man who does this for a living.

Josh is extremely passionate about training students of project management, and you can read his remarkable writing at
pmStudent.com.  That's Josh's site, where he maintains tons of articles and information for project managers who are just starting their careers or who simply want to learn more about the field.

Josh gave us a tremendous interview, and kudos to him for having the patience to answer each one of our long-winded questions (sorry Josh, I promised you "5 to 7" questions, and ended up sending you 10).  Enough chit chat, let's speak to the man!

 



1. 
Josh, thank you for joining us today.  Please take a moment to tell us a bit about yourself, your blog, and anything else you'd like to mention.
 

Thanks for having me! 

I was what I call an "accidental project manager" for many years before I discovered the formal discipline of project management.  I went back to school and earned a Bachelors of Science Degree in Project Management and became PMP certified.  At this point I've been managing projects for over a decade, the latter half of which was done in a formal way. 

Along the way I've written hundreds of articles for many different websites and print publications, volunteered for the PMI in different capacities including the PMI New Media Council, and presented at several project management events including the 2009 PMI North America Global Congress.

Now I'm really passionate about helping new and aspiring project managers with their careers and how to be effective.  I've been blogging at pmStudent.com for about 4 years now, and in March 2010 I'm very excited to be launching an e-Learning portal at learn.pmStudent.com.   
 


2.  You and I share a similar passion for educating young and aspiring project managers.  What was it that drew you to this niche, and why do you enjoy working with PM newbies so much?

 

I love to teach and mentor.  I was a trainer before getting into management and project management, and remember how confusing and difficult it was to know how to run projects effectively and all of the formal terminology and processes involved.

I started pmStudent.com as a way to interact with other project managers as I continuously learned more and more about formal project management.  Since then it's grown in popularity and a community has emerged.  I absolutely love to help people who are new to project management and I have a lot of relevant experience that I can share with them.
 


3.  Next month, my employer is adopting SCRUM and training the entire IT department in this methodology.  You've featured SCRUM quite a bit on your site (articles and videos), so you may have opinions on its effectiveness in a large company.  Very briefly, for me and for others reading this who may not yet be familiar with SCRUM, what quick advice can you give us as far as what to expect and what pitfalls to avoid?
 

First, let me say that while I have an interest in Scrum and have used it a little in the past, I'm by no means an expert on it.  I have had a lot of experience with organizational change management though.  It's possible that a large-scale change like that will be successful, but only in the right culture and with some massively talented and supportive change agents spread throughout the teams.  My recommendation in most cases would be a pilot project team where you can give them the attention and mold Scrum before rolling it out across the board.  A phased-in transition where bugs get worked out and benefits start to become very apparent has always worked best in my experience.

For Scrum in particular, the most important points to me are:

  • The proper use of the product backlog and sprint backlog and how they tie to the WBS

  • Proper use of daily stand-ups (very focused, very structured)

  • Elimination of multitasking from individuals on the Scrum teams

  • Proper roles and support (product owner, scrum team facilitator/leader)

  • Proper use of sprint reviews & retrospectives


4.  Please tell us a little about your WBS Coach e-book and course program.  What made you decide to focus mainly on the work breakdown structure, and how has the reaction been from people who have read the book or taken the course?

WBS Coach is a training course solely focused on the Work Breakdown Structure and what I see as it's proper use on projects.  I focused on that topic because my reader surveys were showing a lot of confusion about it, and the fact that I feel the majority of project managers use it incorrectly.  I've had some really great email and conversations with experienced project managers who said they had an "aha!" moment because my course changed the way they looked at the WBS so dramatically.  One point of contention for a few people has been my stance on phase-based WBS structures, although I think the disagreement on that point may be coming only from the construction industry, which is not one that I'm familiar with personally.

Since releasing WBS Coach, I realized that many of my students were more experienced project managers...  This is why my new e-Learning Portal is going to be much more focused on the people I really want to reach, new and aspiring project managers.


5.  We are both relatively young ourselves, and we're not far removed from the very people we are both trying to reach through our websites.  Clearly the decisions we make as PMs today benefit from lessons we learned; lessons that can only be truly learned from trying and failing through experience.  We can teach project management all we want, but the material doesn't really stick unless the person learning it has a frame of reference to relate to, and that can only be gained through experience. 

For PMs reading this who are just starting out, what are some of the things they can do to learn good judgment without having to go through all that experience first?  Is it possible to skip the learning curve, or do they just have to tough it out themselves so they learn the hard way like we did?

You can't totally escape the learning curve.  What you can do is fast-track it dramatically.

I've written extensively about finding a mentor and gaining experience managing projects in ways that may not be at the top of most peoples' thoughts.  Volunteering is the best way to do this.

When you do interact with experienced project managers, it's important to look for those who are really speaking to you personally.  I find that stories are the best way to relay a lesson I learned and really make it stick.  Unfortunately, most project management textbooks and training talk about lofty concepts and use as much jargon as they possibly can while not relating it to anything the audience knows or understands.

That's why I'm excited that I'll be offering a role-playing project management game in my new course.  Plus, the way I teach isn't all about theory and concepts alone; I like to tell little stories about my professional experience and help people mentally visualize the scenario where this or that concept was applied.  So, my training isn't about reading off slide decks, it's more of conversation than anything else.


6.  One of the problems I've experienced myself, and have also observed with other young PMs, is the lack of respect given by older project team members.  Often times, a guy or gal in his/her 20s or early 30s just doesn't command respect from senior employees who either don't take them seriously or resent them for being younger and perhaps earning more than they do.  What can some newer, younger PMs do to earn the respect of their elder, more tenured peers?

Man, these are great questions!  While it's true that I'm young at age 32, I managed my first team at age 19 in Albuquerque, New Mexico.  It was an operations team and not a project team, but I was the youngest person on that team and some of my employees were in their 50's.  I was sweating bullets!

I actually grew my goatee back then so I would look older, because I have a baby face and looked like I was 16.  No joke!

There are several types of authority...one is called role power or "formal authority".  That's when you have a direct report and the company has given you direct power in some way over them.

As a new manager I thought that's the only kind of management authority there was.  Boy was I wrong.  Formal authority is the easiest to use, and also the worst to rely on.  If you try to use formal authority with someone twice your age, good luck.  I can tell you from experience it doesn't work out so well.  The first time you have someone stand up to you (like I did) you'll either crumble or throw a tantrum and fire a good team member.

Without going into all the types of authority, the best one to build and use is called referrent authority.  This is influence you build over time through positive relationships and trust.  Some of my favorite ways to build this:

  • Don't tell people what to do; empower them to develop their own solutions

  • Downplay your own role and shout from the mountaintops about how great your people are when they really accomplish something fantastic.

  • Give feedback often and focus on behavior & outcomes, not on attitudes.

  • Focus on removing obstacles and constraints from your team

  • Have your team's back.  Proactively take the blame for failures if you can in public, and give feedback to your team members in private.

  • Just be fun to work with!

Guess what I've found?  If you build referrent authority and use it wisely, age and gender don't matter much anymore.  If you try to rely on formal authority, age and gender can become huge stumbling blocks.


7.  My PMP exam was back in 2002, and I found it difficult, yet no more difficult (and actually far easier in some cases) than any college engineering exam I took.  Please briefly tell us about your own PMP exam experience, and do you realistically think it's something new PMs should shoot for once they get a few years of experience?

For me, preparing for the PMP exam was very enlightening.  I had just finished my bachelor of science in project management and only had about 3 years of exposure to "formal" project management.  I treated it mostly as a learning experience and I did learn a lot about the "PMI way" of doing projects.  I wrote a blog post just after passing the PMP about my experiences and why I did it here: 

How and Why I Passed the PMP Exam


I think the exam is worthwhile for US-based project manager certainly, and other areas of the world where the PMP is well respected.  Just take note of the experience requirements and make sure you meet them before getting too excited about any certification.  In other places PRINCE2 or IPMA may be the route to go.


8.  To me, the biggest challenge of being a PM isn't the project management body of knowledge itself, but the offshoot skills like leadership, motivation, power, communication, and organization.  Once a PM has mastered the subject matter of project management, what kinds of soft skills do you feel are most important in developing a career in project management?

Coaching your project team, managing stakeholder relationships, and managing interpersonal conflict are some of the key areas.  Oddly enough, those are among my first priorities for developing soft skills training for the new e-Learning portal!


9.  Sometimes new PMs aren't necessarily young, but have been with their employer for many years and are simply taking on a new role: project manager.  For this "new" PM, a huge obstacle is going back to old habits and acting as a functional manager or resource.  In other words, they're set in their ways, and this affects their ability to manage projects effectively.  How do you feel this trap can most easily be avoided?

It's actually a huge advantage if you let it be.  Assuming you did good work and built strong professional relationships in your last role, you can continue with those in your new role.  Ultimately, you have decided to take on an entirely new role and while your past experiences will be helpful, you must decide to become successful in your new role.

A great way to make the mental switch is to focus on reading books, blogs, etc. related specifically to project management and be sure to educate yourself continually about the new role.


10.  Josh, thank you again for your time today.  For this last question, please tell us, in a nutshell, your one or two most important pieces of advice for new PMs to ensure they avoid failure on some of their first major projects? 

I'm going to cheat on this one...I'll list a few points, but then point you to a post I wrote on this very topic and which has had a lot of other great points made in the comments: 

New Project Manager: How to Screw it Up in the First 60 Days

  • Focus on the people first, tools second.  Your project team and stakeholders are most important.

  • Don't try to change anything in the first 60 days if you are taking over a team.

 



Thanks again to Josh for giving us great answers and putting a lot effort into this.  Please check out his
pmStudent.com site and also his upcoming site, learn.pmStudent.com

We wish Josh continued success.  He's still so young, and you can just imagine what more he will accomplish in his career
.







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